Margaret Carminow was one of three sisters who inherited the lands of their father as coheirs. Her eldest sister, Jane Carminow, married an Arundell of Lanhorne and took Carminow and Kennal manors to her husband as her share of the inheritance [1] . Margaret’s’ other sister, Phillippa, married Sir John Trevarthian and took the manors of Merthen and a quarter of the parish of Ruan Minor and Ruan Major to her husband [2] . It is not certain which lands Margaret brought to her husband, Sir John Petyt, but these may have included substantial manors as well [3] .

Thomas Carminow

Margaret’s father Thomas Carminow was the eldest of two sons of Roger Carminow [4] . The date of his birth is uncertain, but he was probably married before 1356, and therefore born about 1326-36 [5] .  His wife Jane Walesbrough was probably a cousin of Thomas’s or related by marriage to the Carminows. Thomas’s great-Aunt Joan had married a William de Whalesbrough who may have been Jane Whalesbroughs grandmother. This indicates that the marriage was one to consolidate lands and patrimonies in Cornwall.

Thomas Carminow was living in 1361, but was buried in the Franciscan Friary at Bodmin in 1369 [6] .  Although his daughters inherited substantial lands, the major Carminow estates were entailed to the male heir. On Thomas’s death, these descended to Thomas’s younger brother, John Carminow of Fentongollan [7] .  In the reign of Henry IV, these Carminows held five knights fees, which covered about 1,000 acres [8] .

Roger Carminow

Margaret’s grandfather Roger Carminow was the son of Oliver Carminow and Elizabeth [9] . Roger held extensive lands in Wynneton, Mertyn and Tamerton in 1346 [10] . Roger appears to have had two wives, Elizabeth Bottreaux, and Katherine Sherley [11] . However, after his death, which occurred before 1356, it was his widow Elizabeth, not Katherine, who paid a fine of 20 marks for the wardship and marriage of their son and heir [12] Elizabeth paid the fine to Rogers’ chief Lord Gerard de Lisle, Lord of Kingston (Lisle) [13] . It would therefore appear that Roger’s wife was named Elizabeth. It is of course possible that Roger married more than once, and Katherine Sherley could have been his wife. However, Elizabeth was the mother of his child. Roger’s sister Elizabeth married Sir John Arundell, knight whose grandson, another John Arundell, was the Kings seneschal in 1433 [14] . These were powerful family connections.

Oliver Carminow

 Roger Carminow’s father, Oliver Carminow, was the second eldest son born to another Roger Carminow. It appears that Oliver’s eldest brother, Roger, entered the priesthood. Their father had presented Roger to the church of St Stadian in the diocese in Exeter in 1309 [15] . This left Oliver as the heir to his father’s estates. Oliver had three other brothers, the two youngest being Richard and Mivan [16] .

Of Richard, I have found little trace. In 1318, Oliver’s youngest brother Mivan was fined for salvaging a shipwreck worth twenty shillings at Hayleford in Cornwall [17] . As the youngest son, there was little chance that he would inherit the family estates and Mivan obviously had to find other ways of carving out a living befitting his status.

Oliver also had two sisters, Joan and Matilda. The eldest, Joan, had married William de Whalebreus [18] . Joan had probably been given the manor of Udno in Cornwall, as her dower lands by her husband. These dower lands were standard provision, to enable the wife to support herself if she became widowed. However, in 1321 William Walesbrus gave these lands to Joan’s brother John Carminow for life [19] . This indicates that the lands may have been simply a gift, or they may have been in the form of a bribe to John.

In 1329, Joan and her husband William are listed in the line of inheritance of Carminow lands. John may have been given Udno to ensure that he staked Joan’s (and William’s), claims in the Carminow patrimony. This may have been the case, as Joan is the only sister mentioned in the line of inheritance of the lands.  Oliver’s other sister, Matilda, is not named as an heir or successor to the Carminow lands. She had married William de Ferrers who was a substantial Cornish Landowner [20] .

John Carminow

Oliver’s younger brother, John Carminow, acquired quite extensive lands during his life.  As well as being given Udno for life by his sister Joan, he also gained the manor of Glyn through a wise marriage [21] . Oliver Carminow also granted John the manor of Tamerton for life [22] . Having gained at least three manors in Cornwall from his relatives, John then acquired lands in St Gennys from Ralph d’Arundell of St Michael Carhayes in 1324 [23] . These lands were only held by John during his lifetime and on his death reverted back to Ralph. In addition, Ralph also gave John 6 messuages of land in Trevryek in perpetuity. These lands were part of Ralph’s inheritance, but were held at that time by an Isabella de Bulegh. This Isabella was probably Ralph d’Arundell’s mother or grandmother, a dowager living on dower lands. On Isabella’s death these lands were to be inherited by John Carminow and his heirs. This transference of land appears to be solely in John’s favour. For a younger son, John appears to have done extremely well in acquiring lands in Cornwall. It would be interesting to speculate on the reasons why John was favoured in such a way by Ralph d’Arundell.

John may have been closely associated with Piers Gaveston, the Earl of Cornwall, and the favourite of King Edward II. The highlight of John’s career appears to have been around 1317. In that year, John was granted Free Warren on his manors [24] . Rabbits were a delicacy brought over to England after the Norman Conquest, and were farmed only by the King’s warreners in specially constructed warrens. The grant of Free Warren in 1317 was therefore an honour for John. In 1317 and 1318, John was appointed as one of the King’s Commissioners in Cornwall, and exempted from attending assizes for life. However, John Carminow was not always on the right side of the law. In 1310, he imprisoned the Kings Coroner on the Isles of Scilly, and in 1318, he was fined for taking salvage of a ship at Padstowe [25] . Although John was enrolled in the Militia in 1323-4, there was a warrant for his arrest in 1324, perhaps indicating that he did not perform the correct service for the King [26] . John probably died in 1349, and was buried at Bodmin [27] .

The Carminow Coat of Arms Dispute

John’s son Walter, and his grandson, Ralph, continued to enlarge the Carminow lands through wise marriages [28] . Indeed, Ralph Carminow left the Franciscan Friary in Bodmin, where most of the Carminows were buried, the princely sum of one thousand pounds in his will [29] . This money would have been used to pray for the souls of the Carminow dead. Ralph may also have held high office, as a Ralph Carminow was recorded as Sheriff of Cornwall in 1379 [30] .

Ralph fought in France in the Hundred Years War and he met Lord Scrope, of Bolton Castle in Wensleydale, in Paris in 1360. This was no ordinary meeting of two knights, however, as they soon discovered that they bore the same arms, ‘azure bend or’. Both Scrope and Carminow claimed the arms as theirs, and neither side would give way, so Lord Scrope took the matter to the Court of Arms, for a final decision.

Ralph claimed that the Carminows were of Celtic descent and had borne the arms since the time of King Arthur. He also claimed that the Carminows were descended from Arthur. Even John of Gaunt, son of Edward III, bore witness to this ‘fact’ in the trial. However, Lord Scrope asserted that the Carminows could not be a family of pre-Norman origin as they were styled “‘de’ Carminow” which was a Norman prefix. Ralph then claimed that one of his Carminow ancestors had gone to France on diplomatic business in the eleventh century, in the reign of Edward the Confessor, and had been given the coat of arms by either the King of France or William of Normandy on this voyage. To this Lord Scrope replied that if the Carminows had been granted arms in this way, the Marshals of the Court of Arms would have recorded it at the Office of Arms. As there was no record of ‘azure bend or’ being the arms of the Carminows, their ancestor could not have been given the arms in the eleventh century.

It was finally decided that both were entitled to wear the arms. The Carminows because Ralph’s ancestors had borne the arms ‘since the time of King Arthur’, and because Cornwall was ‘un grosse terre et jadis portant le noun dune roialme’. The Scropes because his forefathers had used this blazon since the time of William the Conqueror. In the 1380s, Lord Scrope again had to defend his right to the same arms against a Robert Grosvenor, which resulted in a five year celebrated trial. It is not surprising that Lord Scrope, who was also Earl of Wiltshire and Lord Treasurer of England, won the case [31] . As coats of arms were gradually adopted in the eleventh and twelfth centuries and were not fully regulated until the thirteenth century it is not surprising that such confusion arose.

Oliver Carminow and Elizabeth

It is highly doubtful that our Oliver Carminow would have lived to see this case being fought in the Court of arms. But is interesting in that it shows that Oliver’s great-nephew asserted that the Carminow ancestors were descended from King Arthur. The fourteenth century did see a revival of Arthurian ideals, especially after King Edward III's attempts to build a Round Table at Windsor Castle in the 1340s. However, as it was already difficult in the thirteenth century to identify descent from those nobles who campaigned with William the conqueror in 1066, which was only three hundred years before, descent from Arthur would have been impossible to prove. Oliver probably died in 1345 and he and his wife Elizabeth were buried at the Franciscan Grey Friars Chapel in Bodmin, but they were later moved to the Carminow chapel in Mawgan-in-Meneage [32] . Effigies of a knight and his lady, which may be Oliver and his wife, were erected in the parish Church in Mawgan. Apparently, these effigies still survive, but they are badly mutilated.

Oliver Carminow was an enlightened landowner and is recorded giving his serf Martin, son of David de Hae, the right to leave the manor and trade at Markets [33] . This was before the Black Death of 1349 decimated the peasant and serf population in England and effectively broke the bonds of serfdom. It is also said that Oliver was Lord Chamberlain to Richard II. As Oliver was buried in 1345, and Richard II ruled from 1377-99 this would have been a physical impossibility. However, other sources say that Oliver was a Chamberlain to King Edward II [34] . As Edward II ruled from 1307-27, this would be a possibility, but so far I have found no evidence to support this statement.

Elizabeth Carminow

There is again confusion over the identity of Oliver’s wife. She was definitely named Elizabeth, as she is named in various land records as the wife of Oliver [35] . In most sources, this Elizabeth is identified as the sister of John Holland Duke of Exeter [36] . This John Holland was the son of Sir Thomas Holland, Earl of Kent and Joan the Fair Maid of Kent, and if Elizabeth were his sister than her parentage would be the same. However there are difficulties with this scenario. 

Joan, the Fair Maid of Kent, was the grand daughter of King Edward I through her father Edmund Earl of Kent [37] . Joan was first married secretly at the age of twelve, in 1341, to Thomas Holland [38] . When Thomas went on a crusade to Prussia Joan was married to William Montague, Earl of Salisbury, by her parents. On his return, three years later, Thomas Holland was appointed secretary to Joan’s married household, in a strange love triangle, but eventually decided to reclaim his child bride. At the time in 1344 he apparently did not have sufficient funds to wage the legal battle for his love, but in 1347, he appealed to the Pope to annul Joan’s marriage to the Earl of Salisbury and in 1349, the Pope decided in Holland’s favour. Thomas Holland died in 1361 and Joan then married, as her third husband, the son of Edward III, the Black Prince.

As Joan was thirty-two years old in 1361, she would have been born about 1329. Oliver Carminow died in 1345 when Joan would have been about sixteen. Even if she had born a child at the age of thirteen, that child would have been only three at the time of Oliver Carminow’s death. Therefore, it would not be physically possible for Oliver to have been the husband of a child of the Fair Maid of Kent.

Alternatively, another source suggests that Oliver Carminow married an Elizabeth Pomeroy [39] . This is a highly probable suggestion. It is difficult to understand why such confusion arose about Oliver’s wife unless an Oliver Carminow really did marry a daughter of the maid of Kent and Thomas Holland. This Oliver may also have been Chamberlain to Richard II. As Richard II was the son of Joan, Fair Maid of Kent, and her third husband the Black Prince, it would seem logical that anyone who married her daughter would achieve high rank at court. It is possible that there may be another Oliver Carminow whose career details have become entwined with the life of our Oliver Carminow. I have yet to discover evidence to prove the existence of this other Oliver Carminow.

Alternatively it is possible that Oliver’s wife Elizabeth Pomeray was a descendant of one of the Kings of England. One of Henry I’s bastard children, Rohese, married a Henry de la Pomerai before 1135. It is possible that knowing that Oliver’s wife was descended from a King, and that there was an Oliver who was prominent at Richard II’s court that the two tales were muddled to produce the story that Oliver married the Maid of Kent [40] .

Roger de Carminow

Whatever, the identity of Oliver’s wife Elizabeth, we do know that Oliver’s father, Margaret Carminows great-great-grandfather, was named Roger de Carminow [41] . This Roger was summoned by writ to take up his degree of knighthood in 1265 during the reign of Henry III [42] . He was certainly an active warrior and is recorded as fighting on a Crusade with the young Prince Edward, later King Edward I, in 1270 [43] . It has been said that it was this Roger, or his brother Ralph, who was Chamberlain to King Edward II [44] . If so, this would certainly solve some of the above problems of Oliver Carminow being said to be the Chamberlain of Edward II.

Roger Carminow held quite extensive estates in Cornwall and it appears that he was actively consolidating the Carminow patrimony.  In 1297, the lands he held were valued at twenty pounds a year [45] . In 1297-8 he paid a ‘feoda firme’ of fourteen shillings to the Earl of Cornwall for the manor of Keniel [46] . The heart of the Carminow estates was the manor of Carminow itself, which Roger held in Socage of the Bishops of Exeter as Lords of Penryn [47] . In 1305, he acknowledged the rights of John de Reskemmer to lands in Cornwall worth fifteen shillings a year in rent, for which he was given ten pounds sterling [48] . It is uncertain what the relationship between Roger Carminow and John de Reskemmer was, but it would certainly appear that at this time Roger’s need for ready cash outweighed the need to increase his landholdings. Roger Carminow died before 1313 and was probably buried in the family vault at the Franciscan Friary in Bodmin. It is probable that his effigy is still extant in the Parish Church in Carminow [49] .

Joan de Carminow

Roger Carminow married Joan who apparently willed away the manors of Merthyn, Wynnenton and Kennel to a Matthew de Penfern [50] . These substantial estates were held in chief of the Earl of Cornwall, Piers Gaveston, in 1321, and were an integral part of the patrimony of the Carminows.  As these estates were certainly part of the Carminow properties in 1400, and not alienated in perpetuity from the Carminow family in 1321, it is probable that they were held in dower by Roger’s widow Joan. These lands were the major slice of the Carminow inheritance, so it is strange that Joan was allowed to will these lands away from the Carminow male heirs. 

It is possible that Joan had married a Penfern after the death of her first husband Roger Carminow, and the Penfern family had subsequently taken over the management of her dower lands [51] . The Penfern family may also have attempted to extend their own family inheritance at the expense of the Carminows. 

There was certainly a close relationship between the two families. In 1313, Roger Carminow’s son, Oliver, had installed Matthew de Penfern as the Rector of the Church of Ruan Minor [52] .  At some time before 1319, Oliver had also given Matthew the manor of Carminow in Mawgan-in-Meneage. As this manor lay at the heart of the Carminow inheritance, this would appear to be a very strange gift. The gift also included the advowson of three churches and other extensive lands [53] . As Matthew was a member of the clergy, it is difficult to understand on what grounds he continued to hold any lands [54] .  The gift of lands may have been intended for the church, rather than Matthew. In 1319 it was agreed, that Matthew de Penfern would continue to hold the lands for life, but that on his death they would revert back to Oliver, his wife Elizabeth and their heirs. The matter was, however, not totally resolved, for ten years later, in 1329, Oliver again acknowledged Matthew’s rights, for life, to these lands [55] . This time Matthew granted Oliver and his heirs lands which the dowager Joan held of the de Penfern inheritance. On her death, these lands were to be inherited by Oliver. Joan, widow of Roger de Carminow, and presumably also a widow of a de Penfern, did fealty to Oliver and his wife Elizabeth, thereby confirming the line of inheritance.

On the death of Joan, the patrimony of Roger Carminow was eventually kept in tact and descended to Oliver Carminow and his heirs. It is interesting to note that a Robert de Carminow paid homage to John and Alice Petit in 1262 for a tenement in Crowsan-in-Wragh in St Buryan [56] .  This Robert may be a brother or uncle, or even father, of our Roger de Carminow, but at present, the relationship is unclear. This Robert de Carminow was probably the son of another Roger de Carminow who was living in the reign of King Henry III.

Roger de Carminow of Ardevora

Roger de Carminow owned two acres of land in Ardevora in Philleigh [57] . In 1233, Roger granted these lands to Henry de Bodrigan to for a yearly rent of three shillings payable on the feast of St Michael. Henry de Bodrigan also had to render Roger an eighth part of one knight’s fee service.  In 1256, Roger was recorded as holding lands by military service in Cornwall valued at 16 pounds a year [58] . By granting lands to Bodrigan for parts of a knight’s service, Roger de Carminow was building up a retinue of knights who would either follow him on campaign or give financial aid to help him fulfill his military obligations. He was also ready to translate his claims to land into ready money. In 1233, Roger quitclaimed all rights to three acres of land in St-Mawgan-in–Kerrier for 6 marks of silver [59] .

Roger married a Joanna, parentage unknown, who died in 1299 [60] . As Joanna is recorded as a widow in 1285, her husband was dead by this date [61] . He was probably buried in Bodmin. It is at present unclear who Roger’s parents were, but it would seem highly probable that Roger was descended from the Roger de Carminow below, either a grandson, or great-grandson.

Roger de Carminow of Moteland

The first Carminow recorded in Cornwall was Roger de Carminow who held a knight’s fee in Moteland in 1173 [62] . He married Sarah de Hornicote, daughter and heiress of Gervase de Hornicote, and she brought the great manors of Winnianton and Merthen in Lever to the Carminow family as her inheritance. He also held of his own patrimony the manor of Carminow, from which the family took their name, which was a parcel of Winnianton in Gunwalloe [63] . His marriage probably consolidated lands around his patrimony.  His arms are recorded as ‘Azure a bend or a label of three points gule’ and his crest was a ‘Dolphin embossed or’ [64] .